Ethical?I think NOT!!!!!!!!
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Ethical?I think NOT!!!!!!!! - 9/27/2009 8:41:40 AM
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nhdeerchaser
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From: Central NH
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All right boys and girls,
I was having a discussion with some friends of mine, and the subject of a .243 for bear hunting was brought up. I emphatically(sp?) disagree, even at archery ranges.
I know this is not a black bear forum, but in the context of ethics in hunting, I brought it up. I would not use such a caliber on bear, due to the chance of bullet fragmentation, vs. actual mushrooming and leathal damage caused. Too many variables if the shot is'nt perfect.
No pun intended, bear are a different animal than deer.
What do you all think? Am I right?
Mike
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RE: Ethical?I think NOT!!!!!!!! - 9/27/2009 8:52:03 AM
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Vikinghater
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From: Manitowoc WI
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My uncle does alot of bear hunting and a .308 is the "bear" minimum as he always says.
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RE: Ethical?I think NOT!!!!!!!! - 9/27/2009 9:07:30 AM
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nhdeerchaser
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Vikinghater
My uncle does alot of bear hunting and a .308 is the "bear" minimum as he always says.
Vikinghater,
I think he's right. We have all heard stories of kids dropping deer with .22's. I just think when you go after a big dangerous animal, pack some serious heat.
Mike
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RE: Ethical?I think NOT!!!!!!!! - 9/27/2009 3:44:42 PM
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buckhunter21
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I don't hunt bear, but I would think that the bigger is better when it comes to bear. I think that would be a little small IMO!
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RE: Ethical?I think NOT!!!!!!!! - 9/27/2009 4:28:51 PM
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DeerCamp
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308 for the min?! yikes thats what Im using for my bear...lol makes me feel real safe now :-/
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RE: Ethical?I think NOT!!!!!!!! - 10/1/2009 2:58:58 AM
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mightyfofaad
Posts: 308
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From: Suffolk County, NY
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nhdeerchaser
All right boys and girls,
I was having a discussion with some friends of mine, and the subject of a .243 for bear hunting was brought up...I know this is not a black bear forum, but in the context of ethics in hunting, I brought it up. I would not use such a caliber on bear, due to the chance of bullet fragmentation, vs. actual mushrooming and leathal damage caused. Too many variables if the shot is'nt perfect...What do you all think? Am I right?
Mike
I sure hope you're talking about Black bear & not GRIZZ. A .243 on Blacks is really being under-gunned ... a .243 on GRIZZ is suicidal.
A .30 cal. cartridge is "bear" minimum. At short range you can use a 300 Savage or 35 Remington, but a .308 or .30-06 are better choices. I like the .30-06 because right off the shelf you can buy cartridges suitable for Coyote (55 gr) up to Elk (220 gr). You won't find a more "useful" cartridge.
quote:
WILLSEYVILLE: never shot a bear . we had our first bear season last fall being i use a 20 guage shot gun to hunt with and use 3 inch shells i feel if i would keep my shots 50 yards and under i have enough gun but i agree a 243 is way to small for hunting bears wayne
Yikes I sure hope you're using SLUGS in that 20 gauge! No offence ... but if you're gonna start plugging bears ... you really ought to think about stepping up to a 12 gauge ... and of course ... we're talking black bears here.
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RE: Ethical?I think NOT!!!!!!!! - 10/2/2009 8:01:06 AM
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Cut N Run
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A .270 might work, but my opinion is that anything under a .30 caliber bullet and you are pi$$ing in the wind. 100% agree that .308 is the minimum for black bears. .30-06 is better. It doesn't make sense to be undergunned for something that could possibly take you out if the initial shot was not as good as it needed to be.
Jim
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RE: Ethical?I think NOT!!!!!!!! - 10/2/2009 6:27:35 PM
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nhdeerchaser
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I agree!
The last thing I would want to do is to go into the woods after a wounded black bear at dusk only packing a .243!
Mike
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RE: Ethical?I think NOT!!!!!!!! - 10/2/2009 7:26:16 PM
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mightyfofaad
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nhdeerchaser
I agree!
The last thing I would want to do is to go into the woods after a wounded black bear at dusk only packing a .243!
Mike
Yes ... which is all the more reason to carry a back-up weapon ... my new first choice back up weapon after reading the Thread: Should Woman Be Jailed for Killing Fawn?
is a long handled shovel.
That way, if things go bad, you can always cold cock that bear with your shovel. 
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RE: Ethical?I think NOT!!!!!!!! - 10/4/2009 3:16:29 PM
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mightyfofaad
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quote:
ORIGINAL: willseyville
yes mighty i mean slugs if i were to go after a bear on purpose i would be carrying a rifle most likely my h&r in 45-70wayne
oooh ... that'll come in handy too, if you run across any buffalo ...
< Message edited by mightyfofaad -- 10/8/2009 5:47:29 PM >
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RE: Ethical?I think NOT!!!!!!!! - 10/11/2009 9:56:21 PM
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buckfarmdude
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A friend of mine shot a bear in the back of the head with a .243 a few years back and the bear dropped, laid there for a minute, then got up and ran off. He never found it, and he said he would never hunt bear with a .243 again.
I have killed four deer with .243, and my brother, sister, and aunt have all dropped deer in their tracks with the exact same rifle. It's an awesome deer caliber, but I personally would not hunt for bear with any less than a .308; plenty of knockdown power, long-range accuracy, and not over-gunnin'.
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RE: Ethical?I think NOT!!!!!!!! - 10/11/2009 10:37:46 PM
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Croz73PA
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I have been hunting bear in PA with a 7mm-08 remington and 150 grain bullets. I havent had a shot at one yet but i thought i had enough gun. Dad has a 300 savage. Should i ask to borrow it during bear season?
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RE: Ethical?I think NOT!!!!!!!! - 10/11/2009 11:19:14 PM
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Dan Salmon
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I know a lot of guys in Northern Wisconsin that use the .30-30 regularly. I've personally never bear hunted, but wouldn't feel undergunned with a .30-30 or a .243. It's all about shot placement, even with bears, if you hit them somewhere vital, they're gonna die.
As for head shots, deer or bear, I think you're asking for problems. The target is much smaller with less room for error. To say that a cartridge is not effective because someone attempted a head shot and didn't pull it off, is not the fault of the caliber. It was the fault of the judgement made by that hunter to take, at best, a marginal shot.
This is my opinion, don't want to get into a fight over it. In my experience, I've trailed many deer, many miles due to poorly placed head shots. I won't take them, and I no longer help trail for anyone that does.
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RE: Ethical?I think NOT!!!!!!!! - 10/12/2009 12:09:27 AM
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mightyfofaad
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Croz73PA
I have been hunting bear in PA with a 7mm-08 remington and 150 grain bullets. I havent had a shot at one yet but i thought i had enough gun. Dad has a 300 savage. Should i ask to borrow it during bear season?
Well ... this happens to be one of the exceptions to my own .30 cal. rule.
However, I would invest in a box of 168 grain Cor-Bon Performance Match ammo ... which has significantly more punch than regular 7mm-08 ammo ... and ... has more punch than your Dad's 300 Savage!
Keep this safety fact in mind ... Black Bears have a tendency to collapse with even superficial wounds ... and then in a few seconds jump up and start running at full speed ... so when he drops, that doesn't mean he's dead ... and when he runs off, that doesn't mean you didn't hit him.
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RE: Ethical?I think NOT!!!!!!!! - 10/12/2009 12:49:51 AM
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mightyfofaad
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan Salmon
I know a lot of guys in Northern Wisconsin that use the .30-30 regularly. I've personally never bear hunted, but wouldn't feel undergunned with a .30-30 or a .243. It's all about shot placement, even with bears, if you hit them somewhere vital, they're gonna die.
What you say is absolutely true. Shot placement is the most important factor in killing anything ... but can you always count on a perfect shot?
Theoretically, you could kill a 300 lb boar with a .22 mag. But can you run for 3 miles flat out? A bear can run up a hill faster than you can go down. When you're dealing with something that is potentially dangerous ... shock power or stopping power should be one of your considerations.
EXAMPLE: Let's say some angry 300 lb. dude is coming after you with a baseball bat. Theoretically, you could kill him with a .25 cal. pistol ... but ... how much satisfaction would you get, knowing that he bled to death 4 hours later ... while you're laying on the floor with a head that looked like a pancake? 
Stopping power ... it's not just for cars! 
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RE: Ethical?I think NOT!!!!!!!! - 10/12/2009 6:40:19 AM
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mightyfofaad
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quote:
ORIGINAL: msbadger
Yes ... which is all the more reason to carry a back-up weapon ... my new first choice back up weapon after reading the Thread: Should Woman Be Jailed for Killing Fawn?
is a long handled shovel.
Well then you may get mauled...for you left out the most deadly part of that weapon...the woman...
 Attachment (1)
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RE: Ethical?I think NOT!!!!!!!! - 10/16/2009 8:37:02 PM
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MI Hunter
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Cut N Run
A .270 might work, but my opinion is that anything under a .30 caliber bullet and you are pi$$ing in the wind. 100% agree that .308 is the minimum for black bears. .30-06 is better. It doesn't make sense to be undergunned for something that could possibly take you out if the initial shot was not as good as it needed to be.
Jim
Might? A 270's more than adequate and is far from pi$$ing in the wind. BB's aren't all that hard to kill as long as you choose the right bullet and place it where it needs to go.
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