400-Inch Enclosure Buck
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RE: 400-Inch Enclosure Buck - 9/11/2008 6:28:31 PM
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hunter480
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As soon as I saw "enclosure", I was done. Don`t confuse "enclosure" raised pets with wild deer any more than "shooting" in an enclosure can be called hunting.
This is a blight and needs to be removed.
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RE: 400-Inch Enclosure Buck - 9/11/2008 7:18:10 PM
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shaman
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I have no problem with a fellow like that being raised in a pen. I have no problem with folks raising deer, selling deer, providing stud services, frozen sperm, etc. Some people raise dogs, some rabbits; deer should be no different.
When the animal gets led into a small pen and killed for sport, then I have a problem. I get to really fuming if someone then tries to call it hunting.
It's a nice deer to be sure.
< Message edited by shaman -- 9/11/2008 7:19:36 PM >
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Confessions of a Cervid Serial Killer
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RE: 400-Inch Enclosure Buck - 9/11/2008 7:41:43 PM
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Sailfish
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That deer sure looks interesting.
I'd prefer a typical 8 on my wall however.
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In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.
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RE: 400-Inch Enclosure Buck - 9/11/2008 7:54:10 PM
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schlupis
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first off that deer is a freak and looks uncomfortable with all that junk on its head.. I hope that deer is not going to killed by the highest bidder, calling himself a hunter..
Anybody know what state that is in..
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RE: 400-Inch Enclosure Buck - 9/11/2008 8:56:26 PM
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Woods Walker
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From: Northern Illinois
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Why is this topic on a forum associated with deer HUNTING in the first place?
It's about a relevant as us talking about a 1800 pound brood sow, or a 4 ton Hereford bull raised on steroids.
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RE: 400-Inch Enclosure Buck - 9/11/2008 9:01:25 PM
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howhill1
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shaman i agree 100%. anyone remeber 30-30? the 30 pt buck with the 30 inch spread from the farm in texas i believe, that would have dashed hansens current record.
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RE: 400-Inch Enclosure Buck - 9/11/2008 9:32:37 PM
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fasteddie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Woods Walker
Why is this topic on a forum associated with deer HUNTING in the first place?
It was posted in GENERAL DISCUSSIONS and asked what folks thoughts were on this happening . I believe it was to promote some dialogue ............
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RE: 400-Inch Enclosure Buck - 9/11/2008 9:56:05 PM
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JPH
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I'm not going to wade into the whole "pen raised" issue. With the ethical, legal, and CWD issues that these things present, I'd rather they just fade away. I tire of that debate.
But I will say that I do not find that rack appealing in the least. It's freakish! I don't even get the fascination with the record book wild deer. I'd much rather look at a gnarly old 150-170" that came out of someones farm woodlot or some north woods hideaway.
I just can't relate to those giants. I've never seen anything like that, and to tell the truth, it's not the kind of thing I dream about from the bunk of my hunting cabin.
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RE: 400-Inch Enclosure Buck - 9/11/2008 10:34:33 PM
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howhill1
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this all ties in with the "antler illness" and the dollars associated with this type of deer. i know ive mentioned it before but check out a place called samsons ridge. its a preserve here in illinois that charges according to the size deer you want to shoot for big$.
_____________________________
"please join the N.R.A. as well as your state rifle association! these are critical times for ALL gun owners. Be informed, be active and stay vigilant"
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RE: 400-Inch Enclosure Buck - 9/12/2008 12:26:22 AM
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Goose
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I worked on a deer farm here in WI (mostly feeding and other little stuff) and I gotta say it was an interesting experience. The owner loved them deer just like you love your dog or other pet. I do disagree with hunting in a pen for obvious reasons but I do have to respect alot of deer farmers. Ill betcha Charlie Alshiemer and alot of others will agree with how valuable these enclosures can be. Alot of the every day knowledge we have on deer nowadays is thanks to enclosures. There are bad apples in every bunch to be sure just as with everything.
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Genesis 27:3 Take your bow and quiver full of arrows out into the open country, and hunt some wild game.....
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RE: 400-Inch Enclosure Buck - 9/12/2008 1:37:16 AM
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danesdad
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Shooting this deer would not be hunting. It would be farming. Harvesting something that was grown. Nothing more. That said, it is interesting.
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RE: 400-Inch Enclosure Buck - 9/12/2008 9:20:27 AM
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Woods Walker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: danesdad
Shooting this deer would not be hunting. It would be farming. Harvesting something that was grown. Nothing more. That said, it is interesting.
That's my point. This site and the magazine it comes from is about deer HUNTING, not livestock farming.
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RE: 400-Inch Enclosure Buck - 9/12/2008 9:35:51 AM
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ranwin33
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Woods Walker
quote:
ORIGINAL: danesdad
Shooting this deer would not be hunting. It would be farming. Harvesting something that was grown. Nothing more. That said, it is interesting.
That's my point. This site and the magazine it comes from is about deer HUNTING, not livestock farming.
The site and magazine are about Deer AND Deer Hunting. Not just hunting.
The deer will probably be used for breeding stock, it's too valuable to these people to kill it. Interesting article in Bowhunter magazine, about translocating deer, i.e. those that have been raised say from the sperm of this buck then moved to other sites in hopes of improving genetics. Studies in Texas indicate most don't survive the first year.
_____________________________
A peculiar virtue in wildlife ethics is the hunter ordinarily has no gallery to applaud or disapprove of his conduct. Whatever his acts, they are dictated by his own conscience...It is difficult to exaggerate the importance of this fact.
Aldo Leopold
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RE: 400-Inch Enclosure Buck - 9/12/2008 10:04:55 AM
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Woods Walker
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From: Northern Illinois
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ranwin33
quote:
ORIGINAL: Woods Walker
quote:
ORIGINAL: danesdad
Shooting this deer would not be hunting. It would be farming. Harvesting something that was grown. Nothing more. That said, it is interesting.
That's my point. This site and the magazine it comes from is about deer HUNTING, not livestock farming.
The site and magazine are about Deer AND Deer Hunting. Not just hunting.
The deer will probably be used for breeding stock, it's too valuable to these people to kill it. Interesting article in Bowhunter magazine, about translocating deer, i.e. those that have been raised say from the sperm of this buck then moved to other sites in hopes of improving genetics. Studies in Texas indicate most don't survive the first year.
Yes, and when you start raising "brood stock" to manipulate the gene pool of a WILD herd, then you are now FARMING, and not hunting, whether you have a fenced area or not.
Management of a wild resource via selective killing, habitat improvement, and regulation of hunter numbers? FINE!
Playing God with genetics? NO WAY.
What's next? Dipolid gene deer that grow 170 class racks in their first year but can't breed to satisfy the antler addicts, like they do with salmon?
Every step we take toward "improving" on nature leads us all that more farther from it, and I want NO PART of it.
_____________________________
Hunt Hard,
Kill Swiftly,
Waste Nothing,
Offer No Apologies.....
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RE: 400-Inch Enclosure Buck - 9/12/2008 10:15:25 AM
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ranwin33
Posts: 1552
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Woods Walker
quote:
ORIGINAL: ranwin33
quote:
ORIGINAL: Woods Walker
quote:
ORIGINAL: danesdad
Shooting this deer would not be hunting. It would be farming. Harvesting something that was grown. Nothing more. That said, it is interesting.
That's my point. This site and the magazine it comes from is about deer HUNTING, not livestock farming.
The site and magazine are about Deer AND Deer Hunting. Not just hunting.
The deer will probably be used for breeding stock, it's too valuable to these people to kill it. Interesting article in Bowhunter magazine, about translocating deer, i.e. those that have been raised say from the sperm of this buck then moved to other sites in hopes of improving genetics. Studies in Texas indicate most don't survive the first year.
Yes, and when you start raising "brood stock" to manipulate the gene pool of a WILD herd, then you are now FARMING, and not hunting, whether you have a fenced area or not.
Management of a wild resource via selective killing, habitat improvement, and regulation of hunter numbers? FINE!
Playing God with genetics? NO WAY.
What's next? Dipolid gene deer that grow 170 class racks in their first year but can't breed to satisfy the antler addicts, like they do with salmon?
Every step we take toward "improving" on nature leads us all that more farther from it, and I want NO PART of it.
Well I won't argue your point about deer, but I do like my Roundup Ready soybeans and corn.
_____________________________
A peculiar virtue in wildlife ethics is the hunter ordinarily has no gallery to applaud or disapprove of his conduct. Whatever his acts, they are dictated by his own conscience...It is difficult to exaggerate the importance of this fact.
Aldo Leopold
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RE: 400-Inch Enclosure Buck - 9/12/2008 10:18:13 AM
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Sailfish
Posts: 710
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Woods Walker
Management of a wild resource via selective killing,
Playing God with genetics?
Aren't these two the same?
No matter how its done, once man starts selecting animals that will pass on their genes (whether in a lab/enclosure or in the field) your playing god. In fact I would venture to guess that management of a wild resource via selective killing could have a more detrimental effect on the gene pool in the long run(based on the shear numbers of individuals doing it).
It would be an interesting study for sure.
But that above deer is still a freak
_____________________________
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.
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RE: 400-Inch Enclosure Buck - 9/12/2008 10:24:36 AM
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Woods Walker
Posts: 1905
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From: Northern Illinois
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sailfish
quote:
ORIGINAL: Woods Walker
Management of a wild resource via selective killing,
Playing God with genetics?
Aren't these two the same?
No matter how its done, once man starts selecting animals that will pass on their genes (whether in a lab/enclosure or in the field) your playing god. In fact I would venture to guess that management of a wild resource via selective killing could have a more detrimental effect on the gene pool in the long run(based on the shear numbers of individuals doing it).
It would be an interesting study for sure.
But that above deer is still a freak
To a point, yes. But when you start getting into the DNA of a creature and manipulating it, then you're going WAAAAY past selective herd management.
"It's not nice to fool mother nature, because she can be a real B**** when she's angry!"
Besides, I have big issues with trophy deer manangement anyway when it goes beyond balanced kill ratios of bucks to does.
_____________________________
Hunt Hard,
Kill Swiftly,
Waste Nothing,
Offer No Apologies.....
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RE: 400-Inch Enclosure Buck - 9/12/2008 10:42:52 AM
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allthingshunting
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woodswalker...i don't think you are looking at this objectively enough. It wasn't posted as would you kill this deer in a pen? Do you agree with enclosure hunting? etc. It is asking what you think about the deer itself and is it the largest whitetail deer in the world.
That said, this may well be the world's largest whitetail, however, it isn't threatening to overtake any hunting records. Pen raised deer have always been prohibited from the record books.
You should be asking what can we learn from this deer?
1. what makes him grow antlers that are so superior? we know he is getting optimal nutrition, has age and apparently has the genetics, but is there something else?
2. Can it really grow antlers this large and still function / behave normally? Affect life span? Interact differently with other deer than other large bucks?
3. Also, there is a lot of research in the growth of antlers themselves. Some feel this process, when understood properly, may aid in cancer research and other diseases. It is the fastest growing tissue in the wild.
there are tons of other things we can learn ( i am having a hard time coming up with examples this morning, but pen raised deer provide countless research opportunities that we are unable to obtain from wild deer because of access to them and other reasons.
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RE: 400-Inch Enclosure Buck - 9/12/2008 10:51:24 AM
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Woods Walker
Posts: 1905
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From: Northern Illinois
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I was looking at it in the context of deer hunting. For that, I say that this has no place in it. Wild animals should be managed for population control in it's relationship to habitat, not just of deer, but for the entire ecosystem.
I realize that for many hunters, it's all about ANTLERS. That, IMO, is sad. The more we focus on that, then the farther we get from what hunting is.
As far as this deer being a lab rat for cancer research or whatever, FINE. But this animal has no relationship at all to what I engage in every fall, and think about for the rest of the year.
_____________________________
Hunt Hard,
Kill Swiftly,
Waste Nothing,
Offer No Apologies.....
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